Dark Elves

Unnamed2400 Pts - Dark Elves Army

1 Supreme Sorceress @ 330.0 Pts
Magic Level 4; Lore of Shadow
Obsidian Lodestone [45.0]
Sacrificial Dagger [25.0]

1 Dreadlord @ 267.0 Pts
General; Heavy Armour; Shield
Talisman of Preservation [45.0]
Cloak of Hag Graef [25.0]
Whip of Agony [25.0]
Potion of Foolhardiness [5.0]
1 Dark Steed @ [0.0] Pts

1 Master @ 214.0 Pts
Lance; Heavy Armour; Sea Dragon Cloak; Shield; Battle Standard
Pendant of Khaeleth [35.0]
Dragonhelm [10.0]
1 Dark Pegasus @ [50.0] Pts

1 Death Hag @ 200.0 Pts
Poison Attacks; Cauldron of Blood; Frenzy; 2ndWeapon
1 Cauldron of Blood @ [110.0] Pts
2 Hag Attendant @ [0.0] Pts
Frenzy; 2ndWeapon

1 Sorceress @ 125.0 Pts
Magic Level 1; Lore of Shadow
Dispel Scroll [25.0]

29 Dark Elf Warriors @ 205.0 Pts
Spear; Light Armour; Standard; Musician
Banner of the Eternal Flame [10.0]
1 Lordling @ [6.0] Pts

15 Dark Elf Warriors @ 93.0 Pts
Spear; Light Armour; Musician

20 Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowmen @ 205.0 Pts
Rptr Crossbow; Light Armour; Musician

15 Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowmen @ 155.0 Pts
Rptr Crossbow; Light Armour; Musician

5 Harpies @ 55.0 Pts

5 Harpies @ 55.0 Pts

14 Witch Elves @ 165.0 Pts
Frenzy; 2ndWeapon; Musician
1 Hag @ [10.0] Pts

13 Witch Elves @ 155.0 Pts
Frenzy; 2ndWeapon; Musician
1 Hag @ [10.0] Pts

1 War Hydra @ 175.0 Pts
2 Beastmaster @ [0.0] Pts
Beastmaster's Scourge

Additional Casting Dice: 0

Additional Dispel Dice: 0

Models in Army: 130


Total Army Cost: 2399.0

Would you like to explain, why the General is put in the line of fire by having him on a dark steed without proper protection.
There is the Cloak of Hag Graef which seems useless against cannons and direct template hits as they still wound him on 2+ without him having any option on Lookout Sir! probably killing him outright.

Also the Witch Elves - why taking a hag along without further equipping her? I supose the units are mainly there for killing blows on characters? If so, you do not want to go into challenges anyway as this reduces the number of attacks on the char...

General need do increase the mouvement to be usefull. With mouvement 5 he will never be where you need him.

I'd like to remember too that cannons and catapults don't negate ArmourSave in 8 edition. So if they it the general he will save at 3+ (str5). Only BoltThrowers negate armour but for them you can just put him on a warriors unit.


Wiches have a big number of attacks and are usefull against vampires, deamons, skavens,... all army that have units without a good armour save. If you need you have also the cauldron to get save, KB or +1atk (or you can help them with lore of shadows too).

Probably I have the Cloak wrong but does it not only say, that for purposes of wounding the Strength is halved?
This would mean to me, that the armor save is again made vs strength 10 as this is not wounding any more.
Even though I am not sure about that.

In regard to the witches - I am completely fine with the units in itself - I just do not understand why there is an extra champion bought for both? Would these points not be better spend in additional models?

ah,


he is there if you need to challenge a big character and block it in combat (being stubborn)

you can put them in 1 line and bloch any unit (only the champion dies) and with the cauldron in 12" they are automatically stubborn if i'm right.




and it's still 1 more atk in combat

Cloak of Hag Graef:

Sea Dragon Cloak. In addition, any ranged attack hits on the character (including shooting, magic missiles and other spells with a Strenght value) have theis Strengh halved before rolling to wound (rounding up).


I would say that's the armour in modified with the half of the Strenght

The Konga line is a valid point, even though I am not sure, if someone, you would not like to encounter more widespaced, would charge a Konga?

In regard to blocking out nasty characters - usually you will be fed with a champion instead as the nasty character would not challenge anyway. On the other hand, would you really want to go into a challenge? Would it not be more adviseable to have killing blow on the Witches and try to get rid of the char by getting as many attacks of on him as possible (Immunity to KB taken aside)?

The additional champion attack is by the way substituted by an additional attack from the 2nd rank.


For the cloack - seems like I had this somewhat mixed up in my mind - thanks for the explanation! Now it makes sense to me.

the second rank is already full so the number of attacks can't be increased in this way

anyway those are choices that can be changed, the important thing i think is the structure of the list and this is the best that they can have (imho obv)

1 Dreadlord @ 267.0 Pts
General; Heavy Armour; Shield
Cloak of Hag Graef [25.0]
Talisman of Preservation [45.0]
Whip of Agony [25.0]
Potion of Foolhardiness [5.0]
1 Dark Steed

1 Supreme Sorceress @ 330.0 Pts
Magic Level 4
Obsidian Lodestone [45.0]
Sacrificial Dagger [25.0]

1 Master @ 214.0 Pts
Lance; Heavy Armour; Sea Dragon Cloak; Shield; Battle Standard
Pendant of Khaeleth [35.0]
Dragonhelm [10.0]
1 Dark Pegasus @ [50.0] Pts

1 Sorceress @ 125.0 Pts
Magic Level 1
Dispel Scroll [25.0]

1 Death Hag @ 200.0 Pts
Poison Attacks; Cauldron of Blood; Frenzy; 2ndWeapon
1 Cauldron of Blood @ [110.0] Pts

29 Dark Elf Warriors @ 205.0 Pts
Spear; Light Armour; Standard; Musician
Banner of the Eternal Flame [10.0]
1 Lordling @ [6.0] Pts

29 Dark Elf Warriors @ 195.0 Pts
Spear; Light Armour; Standard; Musician
1 Lordling @ [6.0] Pts

15 Dark Elf Warriors @ 93.0 Pts
Spear; Light Armour; Musician

11 Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowmen @ 115.0 Pts
Rptr Crossbow; Light Armour; Musician

5 Harpies @ 55.0 Pts
5 Harpies @ 55.0 Pts

9 Witch Elves @ 115.0 Pts
Frenzy; 2ndWeapon; Musician
1 Hag @ [10.0] Pts

14 Black Guard @ 255.0 Pts
Halberd; Heavy Armour; Standard; Musician
Banner of Murder [25.0]
1 Tower Master @ [14.0] Pts


1 War Hydra @ 175.0 Pts

Additional Casting Dice: 0
Additional Dispel Dice: 0
Models in Army: 132
Total Army Cost: 2399.0

just some littles changes. what do you think about that? I'm not sure if it's better.
i was thinking about one unit of witches and one unit of black guard. I think the witches are not flexible because they have to be in the near of the cauldron. ok, 12 inches are maybe enough. dont know...

As the declared purpose for the DE army is to win, I would prefer a list closer to the one proposed by Oli.

The list from Alan is more defensive due to the 20 Repeatercrossbows. But there are not many ways that this list can be played.
Olis list is more agressive and if well played better able to win high but is also a bit more risky.

Some additional thoughts:

The Blackguards are quite small and yet dangerous - I fear that they will draw a lot of fire on them as they are worth quite a bit but relatively easy to annihilate. Probably better to stock them up to 20? I would even get rid of the musician and banner for this purpose.

I like the dreadlord a lot, but have seen and tested something else which might work better in your list?
1 Dreadlord @ 262.0 Pts
General; Heavy Armour; Shield
Cloak of Hag Graef [25.0]
Dawnstone [25.0]
Sword of Might [15.0]
Black Dragonegg [30.0]
1 Dark Steed

With the Spearelves - would it be an option, to have a horde and a support unit instead?

as i wrote in a private email to Oli there is another idea:


Unnamed2400 Pts - Dark Elves Army

1 Supreme Sorceress @ 315.0 Pts
General; Magic Level 4; Lore of Shadow
Obsidian Amulet [30.0]
Dispel Scroll [25.0]

1 Supreme Sorceress @ 285.0 Pts
Magic Level 4; Lore of Dark Magic
Sacrificial Dagger [25.0]
#0: Power of Darkness [0.0]
#Drk1 - Chill Wind [0.0]
#Drk2 - Doombolt [0.0]
#Drk3 - Word of Pain [0.0]
#Drk4 - Bladewind [0.0]
#Drk5 - Soul Stealer [0.0]
#Drk6 - Black Horror [0.0]

1 Master @ 212.0 Pts
Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Sea Dragon Cloak; Battle Standard
Pendant of Khaeleth [35.0]
Dragonhelm [10.0]
1 Dark Pegasus @ [50.0] Pts

1 Death Hag @ 200.0 Pts
Poison Attacks; Cauldron of Blood; Frenzy; 2ndWeapon
1 Cauldron of Blood @ [110.0] Pts
2 Hag Attendant @ [0.0] Pts
Frenzy; 2ndWeapon

26 Dark Elf Warriors @ 187.0 Pts
Spear; Light Armour; Standard; Musician
Banner of the Eternal Flame [10.0]
1 Lordling @ [6.0] Pts

10 Dark Elf Warriors @ 63.0 Pts
Spear; Light Armour; Musician

20 Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowmen @ 205.0 Pts
Rptr Crossbow; Light Armour; Musician

15 Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowmen @ 155.0 Pts
Rptr Crossbow; Light Armour; Musician

5 Harpies @ 55.0 Pts

5 Harpies @ 55.0 Pts

14 Witch Elves @ 145.0 Pts
Frenzy; 2ndWeapon; Musician

14 Witch Elves @ 145.0 Pts
Frenzy; 2ndWeapon; Musician

1 War Hydra @ 175.0 Pts
2 Beastmaster @ [0.0] Pts
Beastmaster's Scourge

1 Reaper Bolt Thrower @ 100.0 Pts
2 Crew @ [0.0] Pts
Light Armour

1 Reaper Bolt Thrower @ 100.0 Pts
2 Crew @ [0.0] Pts
Light Armour

Additional Casting Dice: 0

Additional Dispel Dice: 0

Models in Army: 126


Total Army Cost: 2397.0





-D3Th + Dark Lore + shooting phase is just broken

-D3Str + Black Horror can solve a lot of problems

Third spell of Dark Lore is just OverPowered. Casted on a 7+ gives WS+BS to 1 ....





and remember that with sacrificial dagger you can also cast with one dice and add the second one if you don't get enough power


italian player tried this list against 4 times against his team and did 79 points (max of 80), it's not a defensive army, even with 35 crossbows and 2 bolts





it's just to give an idea before leaving internet, you have to chose but think seriously about this one

The list proposed last seems really good to me!

From the top of my head I would only not like to play vs skaven and the double dreaded 13th. All else should be solveable.

glad you like it, for once



obv skaven are not a good matchup, and also empire or dwarves. but this is not a big problem because this list is supposed to push (for 20...) so it won't play against those armies anyway....





now i really leave sciaaaao

i prefer the dreadlord. I usually play a combat army and not a shoot army.

first i will test the dreadlord.

Hello!

This armylist just has a magic phase that the opponent cannot contain (2 +4 sorceress + dagger..)

A very good shooting phase with 35 rptx and 2 bolts. An efficient Magic+shooting phase can easly kill 15/20 generic models..

and the cc still exist and is not so bad: witches and hydra (with caldroun), master on pegas to catch skirm/redirec/wm or bloc monsters.

A list which has to push is not a list that ony play cc.

anyway you're the DE player and you have to choose^^. I think this is a good proposed list but also the dreadlord works very well, and some times is better to play units we have played a lot and know better.

Pulps

Hey guys

After few tests we have come to this result

1 Dreadlord @ 552.0 Pts
General; Rptr Crossbow; Heavy Armour; Sea Dragon Cloak
Dragonhelm [10.0]
Crimson Death [25.0]
Pendant of Khaeleth [35.0]
1 Black Dragon @ [320.0] Pts

1 Sorceress @ 160.0 Pts
Magic Level 2; Lore of Shadow
Sacrificial Dagger [25.0]

1 Sorceress @ 160.0 Pts
Magic Level 2; Lore of Shadow
Dispel Scroll [25.0]

1 Death Hag @ 225.0 Pts
Poison Attacks; Cauldron of Blood; Frenzy; 2ndWeapon; Battle Standard
1 Cauldron of Blood @ [110.0] Pts

29 Dark Elf Warriors @ 225.0 Pts
Spear; Light Armour; Shield; Standard; Musician
1 Lordling @ [6.0] Pts

29 Dark Elf Warriors @ 235.0 Pts
Spear; Light Armour; Shield; Standard; Musician
Banner of the Eternal Flame [10.0]
1 Lordling @ [6.0] Pts

12 Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowmen @ 140.0 Pts
Rptr Crossbow; Light Armour; Musician
1 Guardmaster @ [5.0] Pts

5 Harpies @ 55.0 Pts

19 Black Guard @ 295.0 Pts
Halberd; Heavy Armour; Standard; Musician
1 Tower Master @ [14.0] Pts
Halberd; Heavy Armour

15 Witch Elves @ 175.0 Pts
Frenzy; 2ndWeapon; Musician
1 Hag @ [10.0] Pts

1 War Hydra @ 175.0 Pts

Models in Army: 124
Total Army Cost: 2397.0



-----
+ i am more flexible against vampires
+ i am more flexible against deamons
+ same winnig chances against shooting armies (goood thing is the opponent has problems to get points (4big units, dragon with pendant)
+ i can move more flexible (because only 1 time Wich elves)
+ same strong magic phase
+ more modells overall
+ easier to play, needs less concentration overall 6 games, more experienced with Dragon
-----


regards

Oli
and
David

I am not going to discuss the choice of list you made

Still there are some small points that you should think about and which will not impact on the concept of the list in general.

For the Lord - what do you think about picking Whip of Agony instead of the Crimson Death? This loses you 1 Strength but gives you an additional attack and you can wear a shield to have a 1+ AS.
I would also think about equipping him with the Dragon egg to have an additional breath attack. The points could come from 2 Crossbowmen their Champion and Musician as they do not add much to the unit.

For the Sorceress with Dagger I would consider taking the Seal of Ghrond and the book of Furion instead. Your Magic defences are already weak by not having a Lvl 4. Furthermore you have to commit her to one of your larger units which then will be hampered to seek combat.

Just some thoughts - do with them as you please

@Buchi
with the whip he has +1 attack? why? (is that the thing witch has always strengh 5 and armour piercing?)

regards
david

The whip has +1 Attack as it is still a "Geissel" (sorry do not know the English word for it) which in itself gives +1 attack (Same applies to Beastmaster - hence they got 3 attacks). And yes it also gives Strength 5 + AP. Hence in my humble opinion the better choice.

i can not get point by less core points... i need the 25% ;-) a second unit of harpies would be cool. but they dont count for core... grml..
are you shure with the whipe? i have no book here...

Hi Oli,

ich schreibs mal auf deutsch weil ichs in English nicht 100% zusammenbekomme

Die Peitsche zählt weiterhin als Geissel der Bestienmeister - steht ja so im explizit im Gegenstandstext. Die Geisel hat laut Errata die Sonderregeln "rüstungsbrechend" und "Zusatzattacke". Entsprechend hat die Peitsche der Qualen das auch.

Ergo Stärke 5 +1 Attacke rüstungsbrechend und eben nur Handwaffe also Raum für ein Schild

Hello,

I agree with Buchi: "geissel" =P by Errata has got the "extra attack" special rule. And the magic item is a Geissel, isnt it?

Anyway the deadline is the 14th, I'll check the forum this evening and tomorrow morning, So no problem with timing.

Pulps

1 Dreadlord @ 555.0 Pts
General; Rptr Crossbow; Heavy Armour; Sea Dragon Cloak; Shield
Dragonhelm [10.0]
Pendant of Khaeleth [35.0]
Whip of Agony [25.0]
1 Black Dragon @ [320.0] Pts

1 Sorceress @ 180.0 Pts
Magic Level 2; Lore of Shadow
Tome of Furion [15.0]
Seal of Ghrond [30.0]

1 Sorceress @ 160.0 Pts
Magic Level 2; Lore of Shadow
Dispel Scroll [25.0]

1 Death Hag @ 225.0 Pts
Poison Attacks; Cauldron of Blood; Frenzy; 2ndWeapon; Battle Standard
1 Cauldron of Blood @ [110.0] Pts


29 Dark Elf Warriors @ 225.0 Pts
Spear; Light Armour; Shield; Standard; Musician
1 Lordling @ [6.0] Pts

29 Dark Elf Warriors @ 235.0 Pts
Spear; Light Armour; Shield; Standard; Musician
Banner of the Eternal Flame [10.0]
1 Lordling @ [6.0] Pts

12 Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowmen @ 140.0 Pts
Rptr Crossbow; Light Armour; Musician
1 Guardmaster @ [5.0] Pts

5 Harpies @ 55.0 Pts

19 Black Guard @ 295.0 Pts
Halberd; Heavy Armour; Standard; Musician
1 Tower Master @ [14.0] Pts
Halberd; Heavy Armour

13 Witch Elves @ 155.0 Pts
Frenzy; 2ndWeapon; Musician
1 Hag @ [10.0] Pts

1 War Hydra @ 175.0 Pts


Additional Casting Dice: 0
Additional Dispel Dice: 1
Models in Army: 122
Total Army Cost: 2400.0

only 14wirch elves. but i think a dispel dice is better than 2 elves ;-)

How you like that oli:

1 Kommandant: 545 Pkt. 23.6%
3 Helden: 565 Pkt. 24.5%
6 Kerneinheiten: 692 Pkt. 30.0%
2 Eliteeinheiten: 310 Pkt. 13.4%
1 Seltene Einheit: 175 Pkt. 7.6%

*************** 1 Kommandant ***************
Hochgeborener 140 Punkte, General kostenlos
+ Schwere Rüstung 6 Pkt., Schild 3 Pkt., Seedrachenumhang 6 Pkt. -> 15 Pkt.
+ Schwarzer Drache 320 Pkt. -> 320 Pkt.
+ Peitsche der Qualen 25 Pkt., Kette von Khaeleth 35 Pkt., Drachenhelm 10 Pkt. -> 70 Pkt.
- - - > 545 Punkte

*************** 3 Helden ***************
Todeshexe 90 Punkte, Blutkessel 110 Pkt.
+ Armeestandartenträger 25 Pkt. -> 25 Pkt.
- - - > 225 Punkte

Dunkelelfenzauberin 100 Punkte, Upgrade zur 2. Stufe 35 Pkt.
+ Siegel von Ghrond 30 Pkt., Buch des Furion 15 Pkt. -> 45 Pkt.
+ Lehre der Schatten -> 0 Pkt.
- - - > 180 Punkte

Dunkelelfenzauberin 100 Punkte, Upgrade zur 2. Stufe 35 Pkt.
+ Magiebannende Rolle 25 Pkt. -> 25 Pkt.
+ Lehre der Schatten -> 0 Pkt.
- - - > 160 Punkte

*************** 6 Kerneinheiten ***************
28 Dunkelelfenkrieger 168 Pkt., Schilde 28 Pkt., Musiker 3 Pkt., Standartenträger 6 Pkt., Champion 6 Pkt.
+ Banner der Ewigen Flamme 10 Pkt. -> 10 Pkt.
- - - > 221 Punkte

28 Dunkelelfenkrieger 168 Pkt., Schilde 28 Pkt., Musiker 3 Pkt., Standartenträger 6 Pkt., Champion 6 Pkt.
- - - > 211 Punkte

12 Repetierarmbrustschützen 120 Pkt., Musiker 5 Pkt., Champion 5 Pkt.
- - - > 130 Punkte

12 Repetierarmbrustschützen 120 Pkt., Musiker 5 Pkt., Champion 5 Pkt.
- - - > 130 Punkte

5 Harpien 55 Pkt.

5 Harpien 55 Pkt.

*************** 2 Eliteeinheiten ***************
14 Hexenkriegerinnen 140 Pkt., Musiker 5 Pkt., Champion 10 Pkt.
- - - > 155 Punkte

14 Hexenkriegerinnen 140 Pkt., Musiker 5 Pkt., Champion 10 Pkt.
- - - > 155 Punkte

*************** 1 Seltene Einheit ***************
Kriegshydra 175 Punkte


Gesamtpunkte Dunkelelfen : 2397


- Black Guard
+ 2nd Wich elves unit with Champion (they are very good for its cost, good offensive, good blocker with Champ)
+ 5 Harpies (perhaps it could be interesting raise them on 9)
+ 12 Crossbowmen with Champ (can block dragons)

In this list you have moore shooting, and more units against armies like lizardmen, empire.


regards
David

I would avoid Lizardmen against either DE list at all costs, as a Deathslaan will quite quickly finish off the Dragonrider and afterwards the Dragon, while the cheap shooting Skink swarms will just delay and weaken your troops until they come to a reasonable size to be killed be the Warriors. On this also the proposed list from David does not change much.

Against a shooty Empire, his list should do better though.

The question remains though on how the DEs are used pairingwise...

Final List.

Oliver_Weibel - 2400 Pts - Dark Elves Army

1 Dreadlord @ 545.0 Pts
General; Heavy Armour; Sea Dragon Cloak; Shield
Dragonhelm [10.0]
Pendant of Khaeleth [35.0]
Whip of Agony [25.0]
1 Black Dragon @ [320.0] Pts

1 Sorceress @ 180.0 Pts
Magic Level 2; Lore of Shadow
Tome of Furion [15.0]
Seal of Ghrond [30.0]

1 Sorceress @ 160.0 Pts
Magic Level 2; Lore of Shadow
Dispel Scroll [25.0]

1 Death Hag @ 225.0 Pts
Poison Attacks; Cauldron of Blood; Frenzy; 2ndWeapon; Battle Standard
1 Cauldron of Blood @ [110.0] Pts
2 Hag Attendant @ [0.0] Pts
Frenzy; 2ndWeapon

27 Dark Elf Warriors @ 211.0 Pts
Spear; Light Armour; Shield; Standard; Musician
1 Lordling @ [6.0] Pts

27 Dark Elf Warriors @ 221.0 Pts
Spear; Light Armour; Shield; Standard; Musician
Banner of the Eternal Flame [10.0]
1 Lordling @ [6.0] Pts

11 Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowmen @ 130.0 Pts
Rptr Crossbow; Light Armour; Musician
1 Guardmaster @ [5.0] Pts

11 Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowmen @ 130.0 Pts
Rptr Crossbow; Light Armour; Musician
1 Guardmaster @ [5.0] Pts

5 Harpies @ 55.0 Pts

5 Harpies @ 55.0 Pts

13 Witch Elves @ 155.0 Pts
Frenzy; 2ndWeapon; Musician
1 Hag @ [10.0] Pts

13 Witch Elves @ 155.0 Pts
Frenzy; 2ndWeapon; Musician
1 Hag @ [10.0] Pts

1 War Hydra @ 175.0 Pts
2 Beastmaster @ [0.0] Pts
Beastmaster's Scourge



Additional Casting Dice: 0

Additional Dispel Dice: 1

Models in Army: 128


Total Army Cost: 2397.0

Pulps