ETC Working Group 2015

Hi everybody !

Before we discuss in details of what we did well and what we did bad at the ETC 2014, I would like as promised to introduce the new working group of the ETC 2015, which will be held in Prague this time.
As asked by the team during the ETC, I agree to take the responsability to be the captain (as well as the organizer) of the ETC Team for 2015.

Xavier Panchard (c)
Alan Roncoroni
Kris Leibundgut
Arnaud Abt
Michael Date
Jonathan Pralong
Christian Hammer
Stefan Wanger
Stefan Gmür
Cedric Piguet
Dimitri Zaganidis
Filip Grebac
Raphael Jenelten
Paul Berclaz
Victor Rossier
Francois Zay
Andy Geiser

These are what I estimate to be the 16 players that are electible to be part of the ETC 2015 team. As I said last year, this is not a close group and if I see that new players seem to deserve a place, they will be of course included. For those who are not in the whatsapp group of the ETC, please ask Francois Zay to add you to the group if you wish to.

As usual, the team will be announced shortly after the TPE

I will keep you posted of any new update, so please visit the forum regularly

yeah
Thank you for your effort and to take over the work again.

Well done Xavier


Did you forget Buchi or let him out intentionally? I don't know if he will be available on 2015 that's why I'm asking..

Thx Xavier =)

@Alan
I talked to Buchi yesterday and he has to much around the ears, as that he could take part. With his 2 small children and his jobchange, he has not enough time left to be up to date for Warhammer and to take part at lots of tournaments...

thanks captain.

Don't die like Robin (Keating) Williams.

Thks Captain!

I'd like to start with a first issue.

Even if I was pretty skeptic at first, I am wondering if a "non-playing captain" wouldn't gave a great enhancement to the team. And I mean someone who brings advices, suggestions and takes decision during the games and the turnaments. Someone who has a global overview on what is going on and is therefore able to manage and supervise what all the players are doing. Of course this person will not be able to play at the same time.

What do you think guys?


@Xavier: could you please give me the françois's number? I'd like to be in the ETC group aswell^^


Pulps

I think it is a great idea.

It should be a good player (even very good) so that it's help/ advises/ decision making is accurate during the games.

On the other end, the trouble is to find someone agreeing to do this job and in the same time qualified for it.
Also the team has to be able to afford it, by having 8 other players of a good enough level. If everyone on the list is available, that should be OK, but for instance last year it was not possible.

Even if I was pretty skeptic at first, I am wondering if a "non-playing captain" wouldn't gave a great enhancement to the team

I would say it has a great importance for good teams, but for us the importance (according to my own experience) is somewhat limited.

A non-playing coach can indeed give small instruction like "okay get points, we need some more" and other "take risks" or "tank yourself" but there are very few situations where it is really useful.

1st) we are loosing very badly (ex two players suffered bad luck and are heading to 0-20 and nobody is really winning) and we need to take extra risk to get over 60pts

2nd) we are winning quite high (over 100pts of prediction) and hence there is no need to get additional points.

In any situation between 60 and 100 points, taking risks is rarely a good option. Simply because 65pts is better than 55pts, even if we are losing. We trust the players to know what amount of risks they have to take. A coach like we have now is sufficient to help in the cases where we are losing badly or winning greatly.

What we have the greatest potential to improve is the micromanaging (the games themselves) and this bears more importance than macro-managing. Inmo it is harmful to have a good player that would normally be in the team as a non playing coach, because the losses in micro will not be overcome by the gain at macro level.

I think François did a great job in helping me the last two years.

The big point is if we can affoard to spend one "good" player for this job, and at the moment I'm quite unsure about it.

About what you call "microgaming", it's in facts how players interpretate, handle, and then play the game: most of the time it only comes form the personal player's skills.
However, I suppose that too often players have to take some "more or less" risky decisions, not depending only on their personal skills, and there the captain plays a big role, since he will be the only one with an overview of the whole situation.
You probably know it better than me, since you saw more etcs, but one 0-20 irreversibly commits the team and I have the feeling it shoul be avoided by the captain.

Finally, I'm not saying françois did it bad, although the team needs the job on managing the 8 games simultaneously that he for example is surely able to do.

Pulps

You probably know it better than me, since you saw more etcs, but one 0-20 irreversibly commits the team and I have the feeling it shoul be avoided by the captain.

You misunderstood my point a bit.
Of course if I could choose, I would avoid any player getting 0-20.
For instance my two games against Deamons that went extremely bad in terms of luck. If a non playing captain would have come to my table and say "hey Xav, stop taking risks and save points" I would have laughed at his face and tell him to try himself
Of course if a player is losing badly, he's going to try to save points. I repeated many many times to the player, never try to turn things around during a game because 90% of the time it's not gonna work. If you're losing, try to save points, if you're winning, try to get as many points as you can without taking too much risk.

Only in the situation where we are being capped we can allow player to take risks, or the other way around when we are capping (doesnt happen quite often actually haha).
Otherwise, I would recommend to never take risks. If you're losing 5-15 and your captain ask you to take risks to get points, most of the time you'll be worse and bring even fewer points. So as a captain, in that situation I'm telling, 5pts is better than nothing (and 65 is better than 60)

I suppose that too often players have to take some "more or less" risky decisions, not depending only on their personal skills, and there the captain plays a big role, since he will be the only one with an overview of the whole situation.

For me this is theory-hammer. Macro-managing is very difficult, in 95% of the situations (if not more) the player will be the best to evaluate the risk to take and choose the optimal (or not) balance between risks and rewards. In the 5% situations remaining, we don't need to hinder one of our best player from playing to take that decision, it's just not worth it.

The role of the non playing captain can also be to have an eye on his players: Choosing wisely when to use the 3 minutes break to talk and prevent some errors/not needed risky play.
Also make some briefing to each player before each game. (How do you see the game? what tactic will you try use (cornering, refused flank, middle table defense, rush) ? The thing to avoid at all cost, etc.

This is not possible with a playing captain, the captain has to start his game and think about it.

Personally I am in favor of a (very) good player doing the "non-playing captain", as long as all other slot in the team is occupied by a good enough player. And the "non-playing captain" can be someone else that Xavier, by the way. (I mean the role, not the captain part )

Haha don't worry, I was not arguing against because I was scared to lose my place.

But Pulp he's right, we need a good player as a non-playing coach: so I have the honour to nominate Pulp for this role in 2015! (just kidding)

The role of the non playing captain can also be to have an eye on his players: Choosing wisely when to use the 3 minutes break to talk and prevent some errors/not needed risky play.
Also make some briefing to each player before each game. (How do you see the game? what tactic will you try use (cornering, refused flank, middle table defense, rush) ? The thing to avoid at all cost, etc.

Very good arguments !
It would of course be nice to have such someone, but to fulfil this role you need to be a very good player yourself (with a good idea of the potential of each matchup, to better analyze each game) and if we can spare a player for that role and he's willing do fulfill it (that is, many player already told me they would not like to come and not play) that would be great

i agree with with xavier its difficult every years to fin 8 very good players sooooo why lose one for a fee advice ...
follow 8 games in the same time it's very hard so maybe he can follow 3 games of the baddest players in the team but why ??? it's better that's this good player is playing ...

but after you know your matchup and before the games it's good to go to speak with the player who play the same army ( exemple i play against empire , i go to speak to dim ... ) about the general strategy ... because many player don't do mistake about rull games but just about general ... strategy ... as say dim rush ... refuse flanc .. etc
so i'm for a no player captain with supreme authority ( player have to listen him in 3 min discussion ) ... but he have to be the "9 beddest player"


OR the captain play dwarf (Match) 10 -10 and after he can go give his advice .

Dim described very well what the role for a non-playing captain should be.

Anyway We all agree that it will give surely a great improvement to the team, but aswell we're already kind of struggling every year in order to find the 8 good (and availibe) players.

I just suggest to keep that in mind. Of course one also have to be motivated for that role =P =P


Pulps