Orcs and Goblins

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Orcs and Goblins

Post  2dipicche on Sun 5 Jun - 20:40

Unnamed2400 Pts - Orcs & Goblins Army

1 Black Orc Warboss @ 195.0 Pts
General; Heavy Armour
Talisman of Endurance [30.0]
Charmed Shield [5.0]

1 Savage Orc Great Shaman @ 275.0 Pts
Frenzy; Magic Level 4; Big Waagh; Choppa
Obsidian Lodestone [45.0]
Earthing Rod [25.0]

1 Night Goblin Shaman @ 75.0 Pts
Magic Level 1; Little Waagh
Dispel Scroll [25.0]

1 Savage Orc Shaman @ 155.0 Pts
Frenzy; Magic Level 2; Big Waagh; Choppa
Lucky Shrunken Head [50.0]

1 Savage Orc Big Boss @ 115.0 Pts
Frenzy; Choppa; Battle Standard
Standard of Discipline [15.0]

31 Night Goblins @ 143.0 Pts
Shield
2 Fanatic @ [50.0] Pts

30 Night Goblins @ 140.0 Pts
Shield
2 Fanatic @ [50.0] Pts

30 Night Goblins @ 140.0 Pts
Shield
2 Fanatic @ [50.0] Pts

19 Savage Boyz @ 195.0 Pts
Frenzy; Choppa; Warpaint; Standard; Musician
1 Savage Orc Boss @ [15.0] Pts

5 Goblin Wolf Riders @ 50.0 Pts
Light Armour
5 Wolf @ [0.0] Pts

5 Goblin Wolf Riders @ 50.0 Pts
Light Armour
5 Wolf @ [0.0] Pts

2 Wolf Chariot(s) @ 100.0 Pts
6 Goblin Crew @ [0.0] Pts
Spear; Short Bow
4 Wolf @ [0.0] Pts

2 Wolf Chariot(s) @ 100.0 Pts
6 Goblin Crew @ [0.0] Pts
Spear; Short Bow
4 Wolf @ [0.0] Pts

2 Wolf Chariot(s) @ 100.0 Pts
6 Goblin Crew @ [0.0] Pts
Spear; Short Bow
4 Wolf @ [0.0] Pts

1 Trolls @ 35.0 Pts

1 Trolls @ 35.0 Pts

1 Trolls @ 35.0 Pts

1 Rock Lobber @ 85.0 Pts
3 Crew @ [0.0] Pts

1 Rock Lobber @ 85.0 Pts
3 Crew @ [0.0] Pts

1 Doom Diver @ 80.0 Pts
3 Crew @ [0.0] Pts

1 Doom Diver @ 80.0 Pts
3 Crew @ [0.0] Pts

1 Mangler Squig @ 65.0 Pts

1 Mangler Squig @ 65.0 Pts

Additional Casting Dice: 0

Additional Dispel Dice: 0

Models in Army: 156


Total Army Cost: 2398.0
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Re: Orcs and Goblins

Post  Buchi on Mon 6 Jun - 7:14

Solid Army list, but it seems that you have mixed up something.

Night Goblins cannot wield shields. You can give nets to the units for 45 points - which would be advisable - but that ups the total costs considerably. Also you can equip them for free with either spears or shortbows.
If you want shields - you need standard Goblin units but then, you cannot have Fanatics.

I would go for units with 40 Nightgoblins + standard, nets and shortbows (to add to the shootiness of the list and have the steadfast as long as possible) with 2 fanatics in total. The units costing 175 points total + 50 points for the 2 Fanatics. That will bring the points total to 2400 exactly if I have calculated correctly.


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Re: Orcs and Goblins

Post  2dipicche on Mon 6 Jun - 9:11

mhm I thinkg shields are an army builder error Very Happy



I'll look for it, tnks.
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Re: Orcs and Goblins

Post  2dipicche on Mon 6 Jun - 15:41

Unnamed2400 Pts - Orcs & Goblins Army

1 Black Orc Warboss @ 195.0 Pts
General; Heavy Armour
Talisman of Endurance [30.0]
Charmed Shield [5.0]

1 Savage Orc Great Shaman @ 275.0 Pts
Frenzy; Magic Level 4; Big Waagh; Choppa
Obsidian Lodestone [45.0]
Earthing Rod [25.0]

1 Night Goblin Shaman @ 75.0 Pts
Magic Level 1; Little Waagh
Dispel Scroll [25.0]

1 Savage Orc Shaman @ 155.0 Pts
Frenzy; Magic Level 2; Big Waagh; Choppa
Lucky Shrunken Head [50.0]

1 Savage Orc Big Boss @ 115.0 Pts
Frenzy; Choppa; Battle Standard
Standard of Discipline [15.0]

39 Night Goblins @ 245.0 Pts
Netters; Shortbow; Standard; Musician
1 Night Goblin Boss @ [10.0] Pts
2 Fanatic @ [50.0] Pts

39 Night Goblins @ 245.0 Pts
Netters; Shortbow; Standard; Musician
1 Night Goblin Boss @ [10.0] Pts
2 Fanatic @ [50.0] Pts

39 Night Goblins @ 235.0 Pts
Netters; Shortbow; Musician
1 Night Goblin Boss @ [10.0] Pts
2 Fanatic @ [50.0] Pts

5 Goblin Wolf Riders @ 50.0 Pts
Light Armour
5 Wolf @ [0.0] Pts

5 Goblin Wolf Riders @ 50.0 Pts
Light Armour
5 Wolf @ [0.0] Pts

2 Wolf Chariot(s) @ 100.0 Pts
6 Goblin Crew @ [0.0] Pts
Spear; Short Bow
4 Wolf @ [0.0] Pts

2 Wolf Chariot(s) @ 100.0 Pts
6 Goblin Crew @ [0.0] Pts
Spear; Short Bow
4 Wolf @ [0.0] Pts

2 Wolf Chariot(s) @ 100.0 Pts
6 Goblin Crew @ [0.0] Pts
Spear; Short Bow
4 Wolf @ [0.0] Pts

1 Rock Lobber @ 85.0 Pts
3 Crew @ [0.0] Pts

1 Rock Lobber @ 85.0 Pts
3 Crew @ [0.0] Pts

1 Doom Diver @ 80.0 Pts
3 Crew @ [0.0] Pts

1 Doom Diver @ 80.0 Pts
3 Crew @ [0.0] Pts

1 Mangler Squig @ 65.0 Pts

1 Mangler Squig @ 65.0 Pts

Additional Casting Dice: 0

Additional Dispel Dice: 0

Models in Army: 163


Total Army Cost: 2400.0




this is with the large blocks of night goblins (that i think, with the help of 4D6 str5 fanatics) can block almost everything




by the way night goblin have shields and can replace shields with short bows (onestly we have to think about what's the best, 80 bows are nice but maybe one unit with WS6+ in combat would be good)


for points I took out trolls because, with stupidity, they can really do dmg if far from general+bsb.
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Re: Orcs and Goblins

Post  Buchi on Tue 7 Jun - 7:05

Seems like besides the trolls you also got rid of the Savage Orc mob - was that deliberate?

Based on the proposed list, would it not be better, to leave out the last goblin mob and replace it with 25 Savage Orcs with 2nd hand weapon + standard bearer?

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Re: Orcs and Goblins

Post  2dipicche on Tue 7 Jun - 12:10

obviously not, that's the problem when you make list with an army that you are not used to play...


i forgot them and obv you cannot play without (unit immune to psychology, WS2+ from magic that keep characters and pass LD10 with reroll)
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Re: Orcs and Goblins

Post  Buchi on Tue 7 Jun - 12:56

Thought so Smile

Based on the discussion so far, I would like to bring in an alternative proposal - even though not so many changes, as the basic idea stays the same.

From the 3 large Goblin units only 1 remains but with 3 fanatics. Instead there is the necessary unit of Savage Orcs and the wolfriders got shields, making them not only redirectors but also a bit better against warmachines and light missiles with a 4+ save and to cover the 25% for standard choices.
I also got rid of one Wolf chariot bringing in 3 Orc Boar Chariots instead. In my humble opinion the additional chariot units will add more to the strength of the army than the 40 man Goblinblocker would give.
With all those impact hits, charging options and redirectors this army will especially rock against elves and demons and so we have a (in my opinion) very good option against some of the strongest armies in the warhammer world.

Unnamed2400 Pts - Orcs & Goblins Army

1 Black Orc Warboss @ 195.0 Pts
General; Heavy Armour
Talisman of Endurance [30.0]
Charmed Shield [5.0]

1 Savage Orc Great Shaman @ 275.0 Pts
Frenzy; Magic Level 4; Big Waagh; Choppa
Obsidian Lodestone [45.0]
Earthing Rod [25.0]

1 Night Goblin Shaman @ 75.0 Pts
Magic Level 1; Little Waagh
Dispel Scroll [25.0]

1 Savage Orc Shaman @ 155.0 Pts
Frenzy; Magic Level 2; Big Waagh; Choppa
Lucky Shrunken Head [50.0]

1 Savage Orc Big Boss @ 115.0 Pts
Frenzy; Choppa; Battle Standard
Standard of Discipline [15.0]

38+1 Night Goblins @ 267.0 Pts
Netters; Shortbow; Standard; Musician
1 Night Goblin Boss @ [10.0] Pts
3 Fanatic @ [75.0] Pts

23+1 Savage Boyz @ 227.0 Pts
Frenzy; Choppa; Warpaint; Standard; Musician
1 Savage Orc Boss @ [15.0] Pts

5 Goblin Wolf Riders @ 55.0 Pts
Light Armour + Shields [5.0] Pts
5 Wolf @ [0.0] Pts

5 Goblin Wolf Riders @ 55.0 Pts
Light Armour + Shields [5.0] Pts
5 Wolf @ [0.0] Pts

2 Wolf Chariot(s) @ 100.0 Pts
6 Goblin Crew @ [0.0] Pts
Spear; Short Bow
4 Wolf @ [0.0] Pts

2 Wolf Chariot(s) @ 100.0 Pts
6 Goblin Crew @ [0.0] Pts
Spear; Short Bow
4 Wolf @ [0.0] Pts

1 Wolf Chariot(s) @ 50.0 Pts
3 Goblin Crew @ [0.0] Pts
Spear; Short Bow
2 Wolf @ [0.0] Pts

1 Orc Boar Chariot @ 85Pts
2 Orc Crew, Choppa
2 Boars

1 Orc Boar Chariot @ 85Pts
2 Orc Crew, Choppa
2 Boars

1 Orc Boar Chariot @ 85Pts
2 Orc Crew, Choppa
2 Boars

1 Rock Lobber @ 85.0 Pts
3 Crew @ [0.0] Pts

1 Rock Lobber @ 85.0 Pts
3 Crew @ [0.0] Pts

1 Doom Diver @ 80.0 Pts
3 Crew @ [0.0] Pts

1 Doom Diver @ 80.0 Pts
3 Crew @ [0.0] Pts

1 Mangler Squig @ 65.0 Pts

1 Mangler Squig @ 65.0 Pts

Additional Casting Dice: 0

Additional Dispel Dice: 0

Models in Army: 163


Total Army Cost: 2400.0





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Re: Orcs and Goblins

Post  2dipicche on Tue 7 Jun - 15:06

let's see what's it's sure and almost obligatory


1 Black Orc Warboss @ 195.0 Pts
General; Heavy Armour
Talisman of Endurance [30.0]
Charmed Shield [5.0]

1 Savage Orc Great Shaman @ 275.0 Pts
Frenzy; Magic Level 4; Big Waagh; Choppa
Obsidian Lodestone [45.0]
Earthing Rod [25.0]

1 Night Goblin Shaman @ 75.0 Pts
Magic Level 1; Little Waagh
Dispel Scroll [25.0]

1 Savage Orc Shaman @ 155.0 Pts
Frenzy; Magic Level 2; Big Waagh; Choppa
Lucky Shrunken Head [50.0]

1 Savage Orc Big Boss @ 115.0 Pts
Frenzy; Choppa; Battle Standard
Standard of Discipline [15.0]

19 Savage Boyz @ 185.0 Pts
Frenzy; Choppa; Warpaint; Musician
1 Savage Orc Boss @ [15.0] Pts

5 Goblin Wolf Riders @ 50.0 Pts
Light Armour
5 Wolf @ [0.0] Pts

5 Goblin Wolf Riders @ 50.0 Pts
Light Armour
5 Wolf @ [0.0] Pts

2 Wolf Chariot(s) @ 100.0 Pts
6 Goblin Crew @ [0.0] Pts
Spear; Short Bow
4 Wolf @ [0.0] Pts

2 Wolf Chariot(s) @ 100.0 Pts
6 Goblin Crew @ [0.0] Pts
Spear; Short Bow
4 Wolf @ [0.0] Pts

2 Wolf Chariot(s) @ 100.0 Pts
6 Goblin Crew @ [0.0] Pts
Spear; Short Bow
4 Wolf @ [0.0] Pts

1 Rock Lobber @ 85.0 Pts
3 Crew @ [0.0] Pts

1 Rock Lobber @ 85.0 Pts
3 Crew @ [0.0] Pts

1 Doom Diver @ 80.0 Pts
3 Crew @ [0.0] Pts

1 Doom Diver @ 80.0 Pts
3 Crew @ [0.0] Pts

1 Mangler Squig @ 65.0 Pts

1 Mangler Squig @ 65.0 Pts


wolfs chariot are much stronger than orcs, so i already put 3x2 of them.


for the moment they are 1860 points. We have 540 points left that can be used for:

-night goblins
-other chariots
-other little units (wolf riders, trolls)


i like chariots but this army will have to search the draw. I would play the most solid list that we can have. so my opinion is that:


40 Night Goblins @ 180.0 Pts
Shortbow; Musician
2 Fanatic @ [50.0] Pts

40 Night Goblins @ 180.0 Pts
Shortbow; Musician
2 Fanatic @ [50.0] Pts

40 Night Goblins @ 180.0 Pts
Shortbow; Musician
2 Fanatic @ [50.0] Pts

ore the best choice




this way you have a lot of little units to break line of charges, 3x2 chariots, a lot on WM (4 catapults...), and 110 bows and 3 big units that (with LD10, bsb and a lot of ranks to be stubborn) can block almost everything for a lot of time




remember that is a draw list and the most important thing is to keep points, for this reason I would say that 8 chariots are too much and you need the 3 big units (we can even decide if it's better to have bows or shields to, maybe, also win some combat)
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Re: Orcs and Goblins

Post  Buchi on Wed 8 Jun - 8:50

I understand that for team tournaments army composition in general has to be more defensive, simply as to be able to block out opponents and to secure points. No argument about that.
Nevertheless, you can also achieve this, by having counter armies to obvious enemy army choices and in addition by this you gain the opportunity not only to take out a nasty army and gain a draw on them but actually to score, while still maintaining the ability to draw nearly all other games.

O&G with lots of impact hits are an exceptionally well positioned army especially against some of the obvious army choices like Demons and Dark + High Elves. The list will still be ok vs nearly all other choices and will likely lose to Vampires (but will do that also if you play the 3 goblin blocks). That gives quite a few opportunities in pairing forcing more favourable matches as the 2 strongest armies (DE and Demons) cannot really go against those.
Also with the last list you proposed, you cannot put up the O&G as long as the opponent has Vampires+Lizzardmen to oppose them, as Lizzardmen will beat O&G without enough charriots. Thus limiting your own setup choices

I can see that you would like to have those large goblin blocks but please remember that they are all subject to animosity and may have to charge, thus probably releasing the Fanatics which might not reach the enemy (the chance they get an 8 is about 41%) and thus you have to charge through them - killing the fanatics and gaining up to 4D6 Strength 5 hits. Additionally the fanatics can easily backfire and if they go back through the large units will end up inevitably close to the artillery.
Also there are not many small units to break line of charges. The list has only 2 real redirectors which are subject to animosity as well plus the manglers which are easily taken out by enemy redirectors.
Furthermore with 4 infantry blocks you will have quite a few units out of generals/BSB range as you do not have the space or you have to advance which is what you do not want to do.
Should the general be killed, the army is gone as the Goblins are then steadfast on morale 5.
The large units are also prone to spells that affect the whole unit and to template weapons.

Even if you insist on playing the 3 goblin blocks please at least consider getting rid of some (even better all) fanatics to get them nets instead, as this will do far more to make the list solid as the fanatics could do.
Usually you do not see fanatics any more with the more experienced O&G players except for concepts where there are 2-3 in a smaller unit that is Hand of Gork'ed to the enemy and even those are very rare considering eagles and harpies. There are just to many possibilities that they hurt you much more than the enemy - I have already mentioned some of them above. Standing in the way of a much needed countercharge being another very grizzly one. Thus they are no element of solidity but actually they make the whole concept much more risky.

Please Alan, consider these suggestions carefully. I own an O&G army and am actively playing them in a campaign since the start of this year and have quite a few games under my belt with them. I also follow quite a few german O&G forums with some quite high ranked german NTR players, so I am not only uttering my own warped opinion or some idiotic second hand rumblings. There is a lot of playtesting and experience involved.

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Re: Orcs and Goblins

Post  2dipicche on Wed 8 Jun - 15:31

onsestly on your list, the only problem that i see in your list is the single big unit.

maybe if we find the way to have 2 of them it would be better no?

onestly in my opinion the base of the list is almost obligatory, aftere there are the 540 free points to use


and play:

2x40 night goblins + 2 orc chariots ?


you will have 3x2 goblin chariots and 2 orc chariots. 2 big units. characters+savage and the same stuff...



i want also to wait Pulp (filip) opinion, he had some work until today. now he should have time to think about ETC lits




anyway i think that orcs are a better than HE
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Re: Orcs and Goblins

Post  Buchi on Wed 8 Jun - 15:59

I am absolutely fine with your suggestion of 2 Goblin blocks instead of 3 and will definately bow to the decission of the player behind the Orcs. Very Happy

If O&G or HE are "better" depends a bit on the matchup. But the possible setups of HE with Book of Hoeth allowed are quite extreme...

Enough said for the moment - will wait on Filip on this. silent

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Re: Orcs and Goblins

Post  Pulps on Thu 9 Jun - 17:09

Hi! Sorry if I join the discussion a little bit too late but I was busy with the school =P. I still have some exams to do but I'll find the time for the ETC: I discuss with Alan quite often every day and will start some testing as soon as possible.

Anyway let's back to te discussion^^.
The question between O&G and HE is still open: I personally find O&G in 8th definnitely playable as the best choice in a team tournament, for draws and "8-12" matches with bad matchups..HE are just not the same thing =P. Then we have to discuss of wath we need more..

I missed a bit Orcs in 8th beacuse of the schoolyear so Buchi don't hesitate: I'll be glad for any of your suggestions =D. ANyway I really liked them in 7th and basically they rest the same "on foot solid" list, just a bit more tricky...but is just my first opinion.

The purpose is to have an army thats will give less points as possible and with a good number of auto hits to make some points, an army that no one will be happy to play against and that will took the "bad matchups".


1 Black Orc Warboss @ 195.0 Pts
General; Heavy Armour
Talisman of Endurance [30.0]
Charmed Shield [5.0]

1 Savage Orc Great Shaman @ 275.0 Pts
Frenzy; Magic Level 4; Big Waagh; Choppa
Obsidian Lodestone [45.0]
Earthing Rod [25.0]

1 Night Goblin Shaman @ 75.0 Pts
Magic Level 1; Little Waagh
Dispel Scroll [25.0]

1 Savage Orc Shaman @ 155.0 Pts
Frenzy; Magic Level 2; Big Waagh; Choppa
Lucky Shrunken Head [50.0]

1 Savage Orc Big Boss @ 115.0 Pts
Frenzy; Choppa; Battle Standard
Standard of Discipline [15.0]

19 Savage Boyz @ 185.0 Pts
Frenzy; Choppa; Warpaint; Musician
1 Savage Orc Boss @ [15.0] Pts

Nothing to say about that.

1 Rock Lobber @ 85.0 Pts
3 Crew @ [0.0] Pts

1 Rock Lobber @ 85.0 Pts
3 Crew @ [0.0] Pts

1 Doom Diver @ 80.0 Pts
3 Crew @ [0.0] Pts

1 Doom Diver @ 80.0 Pts
3 Crew @ [0.0] Pts

Ok.

Now, In my opinion this army needs a good number of light units to redirect bcause most of the time u'll need time and in general in 8th a lot of army list have got the "big unit" " to avoid that with this army is difficult to handle with. And we need a good number of autohits, so we also need:

-6x fanatics (sry Buchi but I don't agree with u about that ^^ 3x2 fanatics imho is an obligatory choice but I'll be glad if u link some forum that discuss about that, doesn't matter if they speak german..)

-2x Manglers

-6/8 Gobbos chariots

-3x5 wolves

-2/3 trolls

No idea of the units size and things like that, is just my first opinion. I still have to think about rosters and, most important thing, test a bit.
For this weekend I'll be more concrete: Promise^^

Pulps





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Re: Orcs and Goblins

Post  Buchi on Fri 10 Jun - 9:32

Hi Pulps,

Thanks for your feedback and letting me take part in the discussion.

In regard to the Fanatics you should have a look at tabletopwelt.de but you will have to do quite a bit of research as the topic is spread over various threads.
However, I respect your high opinion on the Fanatics but would be very grateful if you could elaborate a bit more on why you think them to be so viable and valuable.

I already brought on the table quite a few points that speak against the fanatics and I would be glad, if you would take the time to invalidate them. Wink
- not reaching the enemy and randomly going back through the large blocks and possibly into the warmachines
- not reaching the enemy and thus blocking a countercharge
- failed animosity with compelled charge thus releasing the fanatics not reaching the enemy and thus dealing hits to your own charging unit as they are not allowed to stop.
- in order to be in range to general and BSB at least 2 goblin blocks have to be close together, thus bringing in a cheap redirector into 8 inches of both units simultanely releases 4 fantics at once, thus rendering them uncontrollable for nearly no gain.
- if you take the fanatics you quite likely have no points for nets, which in my humble opinion do more for steadying the line and solidifying the army than the fanatics would do, as the number of killed goblins is reduced and together with a charge from the chariots might well turn the tables on the enemy.

About HE vs O&G - I agree, that O&G has a better aballity to draw, as long as you can preserve general and BSB. If by any chance that fails - O&G are toast, losing very badly.
HE are a bit more fickle. In 8th they have to get into cc and are sometimes easily countered depending on the setup but are as often a very pottent army being the ideal antilist to your opponent.

In this regard I got a quick question to the open roster: will the open roster also tell the lore(s) of the army?
If not, then I am totally for O&G as HE are a real gamble against death magic.

Thanks in advance for your response!

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Re: Orcs and Goblins

Post  2dipicche on Fri 10 Jun - 12:47

In this regard I got a quick question to the open roster: will the open roster also tell the lore(s) of the army?
If not, then I am totally for O&G as HE are a real gamble against death magic.


of course. lores are options that will be chosen during army composition, so they are written on army list.


by the way it depends what do you play with HE. Hoeth is a good object but costs too much (2PD and 2DD). my HE idea is 2 big Wizards (shadow and high magic ?), banner of sorcery, shard (that block the magic phase, don't remember the name) or dispell 4+ and world dragon banner.

or Hoeth + cloak WS2+ from magic (and lore of death is useless this time too)




I can post some HE list if you want to see them too
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Re: Orcs and Goblins

Post  Buchi on Fri 10 Jun - 13:31

Thanks for the clarification.

I would be much interested in seeing the HE proposal(s). I have not yet seen a HE list with 2 Lvl4s - should be interesting Very Happy

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Re: Orcs and Goblins

Post  Pulps on Sun 12 Jun - 14:08


About Fanatics.

The animosity is now the biggest problem: everytime u need to have something to block a possible charge movement (Trolls, chariots...) due to a failed animosity test which force u to release fanatics and move through them. Just a little corner of the troll's base is enough.

In general I'll never move a night gobbos units to release fanatics, is the enemy who has to move his units: gobbos just have to defend warmachines and the savage orcs. If the enemy will charge the gobbos or a unit nerby and he releases fanatics i'ts sure he'll take 2ds S5 for each one. Against light/cheap/flying units u have to place gobbos and counter units to charge (Chariots, maybe manglers and wolves) a bit carefully to avoid that the enemy just have to move on to release all of yours fanatics close to your dep zone.

More, with the Hand of Gork spell you can teleport a fanatic in front of an enemy unit who will maybe declare a charge the next turn, or an entire gobbos units at 2 inches from the enemy to release fanatic who will automaticly hit, and potentially more units.

Anyway we're still thinking if playing HE or O&G...also the HE has a very solid armylist and I still need a lot of playtesting with orcs =P

I think Alan will post a HE list soon.

Pulps

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Re: Orcs and Goblins

Post  2dipicche on Sun 12 Jun - 18:17

I think Alan will post a HE list soon.


already done
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Re: Orcs and Goblins

Post  Buchi on Tue 14 Jun - 9:10

I completely agree, that gobbos should rather seldomly move and should be prevented from charging by having units in their way.
The problem is the proposed list does not have many units that could block an animosity charge. The chariots are not really viable for this due to their positioning. The manglers are also no option as there, the enemy unit will just be placed on the Mangler, eradicating both and releasing the fantics at the same time which only leaves you with 2 Wolve units which is simply not enough.
So this does not get rid of the problem that the enemy will at least be able to simultanously draw the fanatics of 2 gobbo units as their is simply no way to have them widespread enough. There is also the problem, that even if there was the space on the table, you would never choose to separate the units this wide, as they desperately need the Generals Morale and the BSB as steadfastness on a 5 is rubbish.

I would recommend some playtesting to see how your fanatics will fare - especially going against Harpies/Gargoyles/Eagles and some such and if what you propose to block the charge lines really works Wink

As Alan has posted his HE list, I will wait on your opinion on it and your pobable list.

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Re: Orcs and Goblins

Post  Pulps on Sat 18 Jun - 11:35

Hey!

I've not seen the last armlist proposed but 3x wolves and 2-3x trolls normally must be there. And the trolls are perfect to stay under the general LS and block the animosity charges or, eventually, a frenzy charge and they could still be played as redirectors when you need it.

In general I play a block with savages and 2 gobbos, possibly near the WM to defend them. The third unit of gobbos depends of the opponent...one unit of gobbos could easly release fanatics against flyers or light units, and if they're still alive move them with the hand of gork the next turn on the front of an enemy unit.

Now you can measure every distance and in general you have more units than the opponent, so you can wait that the opponent places harpies,fellbats,eagles and places gobbos as you wish, and chariots, wolves and manglers to eventualy prevent some oppo movements.

It's not so easy to explain all this things for me but in general I have 1 gobbos who release fanatics against bats/harpies/eagles and the others 2 are in the second line and normally is not so easy for the enemy to arrive at 8".

Anyway it's probably I'll play HE, at last^^


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Re: Orcs and Goblins

Post  Buchi on Mon 20 Jun - 7:19

Understood Very Happy

With 2-3 Wolfes and 3x Trolls the concept might work. Basically that will be a list close to the one first proposed by Alan.
So, even if this brings in the fanatics more reliably, this has the drawback, that the Gobbo units are smaller and have no nets, thus they might sooner be broken.

No matter what O&G list I still find them more compeling as the HE List proposed momentarily by Alan.

What HE list would you play Pulps?

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Re: Orcs and Goblins

Post  Pulps on Tue 21 Jun - 8:15

Unnamed2400 Pts - Orcs & Goblins Army

1 Savage Orc Great Shaman @ 275.0 Pts
Frenzy; Magic Level 4; Big Waagh; Choppa
Obsidian Lodestone [45.0]
Earthing Rod [25.0]

1 Black Orc Big Boss @ 125.0 Pts
General; Heavy Armour
Charmed Shield [5.0]
Talisman of Endurance [30.0]

1 Night Goblin Shaman @ 75.0 Pts
Magic Level 1; Little Waagh
Dispel Scroll [25.0]

1 Savage Orc Shaman @ 155.0 Pts
Frenzy; Magic Level 2; Big Waagh; Choppa
Lucky Shrunken Head [50.0]

1 Savage Orc Big Boss @ 115.0 Pts
Frenzy; Choppa; Battle Standard
Standard of Discipline [15.0]

5 Goblin Wolf Riders @ 50.0 Pts
Light Armour

5 Wolf @ [0.0] Pts

5 Goblin Wolf Riders @ 50.0 Pts
Light Armour

5 Wolf @ [0.0] Pts

5 Goblin Wolf Riders @ 50.0 Pts
Light Armour

5 Wolf @ [0.0] Pts

19 Savage Boyz @ 185.0 Pts
Frenzy; Choppa; Warpaint; Musician

1 Savage Orc Boss @ [15.0] Pts

30 Night Goblins @ 150.0 Pts
Shortbow; Musician

2 Fanatic @ [50.0] Pts

30 Night Goblins @ 150.0 Pts
Shortbow; Musician

2 Fanatic @ [50.0] Pts

30 Night Goblins @ 150.0 Pts
Shortbow; Musician

2 Fanatic @ [50.0] Pts

2 Wolf Chariot(s) @ 100.0 Pts

6 Goblin Crew @ [0.0] Pts
Spear; Short Bow

4 Wolf @ [0.0] Pts

2 Wolf Chariot(s) @ 100.0 Pts

6 Goblin Crew @ [0.0] Pts
Spear; Short Bow

4 Wolf @ [0.0] Pts

2 Wolf Chariot(s) @ 100.0 Pts

6 Goblin Crew @ [0.0] Pts
Spear; Short Bow

4 Wolf @ [0.0] Pts

1 Trolls @ 35.0 Pts

1 Trolls @ 35.0 Pts

1 Trolls @ 35.0 Pts

1 Doom Diver @ 80.0 Pts

3 Crew @ [0.0] Pts

1 Doom Diver @ 80.0 Pts

3 Crew @ [0.0] Pts

1 Rock Lobber @ 85.0 Pts

3 Crew @ [0.0] Pts

1 Rock Lobber @ 85.0 Pts

3 Crew @ [0.0] Pts

1 Mangler Squig @ 65.0 Pts

1 Mangler Squig @ 65.0 Pts

Additional Casting Dice: 0

Additional Dispel Dice: 0

Models in Army: 161


Total Army Cost: 2395.0

I was thinking about something like this one: pretty similar as the first one proposed by Alan.
The concept remains the same. You give 130pts for manglers and 150 for wolves when you need more time against big enemy units. 4 WM, foot of gork, some bows and a good number of auto hits to gain points against small enemy units.
Little problem is when you face models or units (like hydra or uncle one, for example) who have no problem crashing all my units and I have nothing to counter them on combat phase and who are not so easy to kill by shooting. U need a good deployment phase and take your time with redirectors. Of course is better to avoid heavy shooting armies like empire or dwarves.
Another little problem is the LD 8 and with this list you definitely have to do a lot of LD tests.
I agree with you that gobbos are too weaks now for blocking...now they're 3x30 they can still block some enemy units for 1-2 turns, nothing more, but sometimes its enough and I'm not sure nets are the best solution: too much expensive and there are too much S6 units...but if you can persuade me =P

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Re: Orcs and Goblins

Post  Pulps on Thu 14 Jul - 14:31

Final LIst.

Grebac Filip - 2400 Pts - Orcs & Goblins Army

1 Black Orc Warboss @ 195.0 Pts
General; Heavy Armour
Talisman of Endurance [30.0]
Charmed Shield [5.0]

1 Savage Orc Great Shaman @ 275.0 Pts
Frenzy; Magic Level 4; Big Waagh; Choppa
Obsidian Lodestone [45.0]
Earthing Rod [25.0]

1 Savage Orc Big Boss @ 115.0 Pts
Frenzy; Choppa; Battle Standard
Standard of Discipline [15.0]

1 Savage Orc Shaman @ 155.0 Pts
Frenzy; Magic Level 2; Big Waagh; Choppa
Lucky Shrunken Head [50.0]

1 Night Goblin Shaman @ 75.0 Pts
Magic Level 1; Little Waagh
Dispel Scroll [25.0]

5 Goblin Wolf Riders @ 50.0 Pts
Light Armour
5 Wolf @ [0.0] Pts

5 Goblin Wolf Riders @ 50.0 Pts
Light Armour
5 Wolf @ [0.0] Pts

5 Goblin Wolf Riders @ 50.0 Pts
Light Armour
5 Wolf @ [0.0] Pts

19 Savage Boyz @ 195.0 Pts
Frenzy; Choppa; Warpaint; Standard; Musician
1 Savage Orc Boss @ [15.0] Pts

40 Night Goblins @ 180.0 Pts
Shortbow; Musician
2 Fanatic @ [50.0] Pts

40 Night Goblins @ 180.0 Pts
Shortbow; Musician
2 Fanatic @ [50.0] Pts

3 Wolf Chariot(s) @ 150.0 Pts
9 Goblin Crew @ [0.0] Pts
Spear; Short Bow
6 Wolf @ [0.0] Pts

2 Wolf Chariot(s) @ 100.0 Pts
6 Goblin Crew @ [0.0] Pts
Spear; Short Bow
4 Wolf @ [0.0] Pts

2 Wolf Chariot(s) @ 100.0 Pts
6 Goblin Crew @ [0.0] Pts
Spear; Short Bow
4 Wolf @ [0.0] Pts

1 Trolls @ 35.0 Pts

1 Trolls @ 35.0 Pts

1 Mangler Squig @ 65.0 Pts

1 Mangler Squig @ 65.0 Pts

1 Doom Diver @ 80.0 Pts
3 Crew @ [0.0] Pts

1 Doom Diver @ 80.0 Pts
3 Crew @ [0.0] Pts

1 Rock Lobber @ 85.0 Pts
3 Crew @ [0.0] Pts

1 Rock Lobber @ 85.0 Pts
3 Crew @ [0.0] Pts



Additional Casting Dice: 0

Additional Dispel Dice: 0

Models in Army: 149


Total Army Cost: 2400.0

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